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Post by coachspenny on Nov 17, 2015 1:01:52 GMT -5
Nothing to add just seeing if we can get this to a page 4...... Never seen one go that far.
Agendas aside we sign up to play ..... If we go up or down does it 'really' matter? Last time I played Division 1 I didn't get paid any extra money than I do now.
If all the other teams let us win then it's just down to that one game we play them (unless the s**t the bed) (or HELLAS destroy them. Literally in the return match) We welcome fans (at away games) and can bring team scarves and toques (pre order only $10 each)
So now the two teams are SFFC (the not so good ones) and SFFC (the unsportsmanlike, scared to play ones, alternate agenda to playing soccer ones, and the league runner up ones)
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mtf
Benchwarmer
Posts: 17
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Post by mtf on Nov 17, 2015 13:20:32 GMT -5
Good one Bob. I was hoping someone would remember that one. They were in div2 last yr fighting to stay up. He figured if he could sh*t can PLO Orange and if it came down to GA N GF he would stay up. End of day PLO folded and all points were taken away from all teams and GA and GF. They couldnt close the deal after that and found themselves in div3 this yr. Watch the Karma Cops reappear once again. This isn't the div 2 team that was relegated, this is the div 3 team that failed to get promoted last year. For what it's worth I'm a member of the team and was thoroughly disappointed that the game wasn't played. It's an amateur league and I feel that the coache/clubs ultimate obligation is to facilitate the game for the players. I play soccer because I love the competition and I love the game. To win in this way, for meis empty. Ian puts a lot of hard work and effort into numerous aspects of running the club and I believe he made this decision based on what he thought was best. End of the day it was his call and he did what he felt was right for SFFC. I hope the league shows you guys some lenience and you at least avoid a fine. Also, why you can't just show government ID in instances like these makes no sense at all! Silly VISL rule that should be looked at. One of the many rules they have that doesn't serve their customers that are paying the league fees. ** I'm not sure how the game following on from this one would be effected and if it was even possible to fit the game in with its starting late**
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Week 9
Nov 18, 2015 13:04:46 GMT -5
via mobile
spurs likes this
Post by jimmytg on Nov 18, 2015 13:04:46 GMT -5
Great to see a player from SFFC reply with an honest and logical response to the situation. Good on ya mtf.
Doesn't look like there is going to be any leniency from the league in this situation. Hellas have been assessed the forfeit and a fine notice was sent out to us a couple days ago for the $250. Half of that fine will be submitted to SFFC - so a win, 3 points and $125 of our independent team's very limited funds.
I may file an appeal to the VISL executive board to see if they can perhaps reduce or forgive this fine due to the circumstances. I guess it's worth a try to see what happens, but it should be known by all that the Hellas play for the love of the game and our team is more of a family than just a team - I think the passion we show on the field speaks to that. I was out of town and missed the game in question, but have since spoken with many of the guys on my team and they are so disappointed with the sequence of events - not so much the forfeit loss, but the fact that the opposing team walked off the field and didn't even bother playing. We've played tons of exhibition games with various teams in the VISL over the years for the sport of it. I shake my head at the coach of SFFC for the total lack of sportsmanship in this situation and for depriving 30+ guys from playing regardless if the game meant anything to the standings or not.
But with that said, I'm not sure how many of you realize how hard it is to run an independent team and how expensive it is. The big clubs basically own all of the cheap field time in the city and we don't have anyone to share the expensive field time that is left. Lucky for us the Greek Community of Victoria gives us some support to enable this team to exist for the 10 years that it has. It's filled with guys with Greek heritage and friends. I must say it is like nothing I have ever been a part of... As for the monetary aspect hmmmm maybe SFFC would like to donate their share of the fine back to us? :-)
In thinking about a good solution to this issue so that it doesn't happen again in the future, the player cards are viewable on the VISL website in the registration section of the site that coaches and managers can access. In this day and age who wouldn't have a smartphone to present the card copies from the website to the ref? I think I may suggest that in addition to photocopies being allowed once a year, that alternatively cards from the VISL website can also be allowed to be shown in the event cards are not present at the game. It will save lots of grief in the future and will keep the integrity and sportsmanship of the game intact. I can tell you right now how much it sucks to lose a game, get a fine and waste an entire night due to a technicality. Not fun.
JTG
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Post by div1 on Nov 18, 2015 18:23:18 GMT -5
Silver lining - this is being discussed - with so many opinions. Just got back from Montreal and am dying to post - but will be a long one that I cant do with my kid on my lap spitting at computer and yelling at me. Will try to give a League perspective tomorrow. Till then, get your ID's photocopied.....
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Week 9
Nov 18, 2015 21:59:25 GMT -5
Post by jimmytg on Nov 18, 2015 21:59:25 GMT -5
So would getting our team to pledge allegiance to the Habs help us out at all div1? ;-) In the meantime, cards will definitely be photocopied 5 times and distributed among the members of the team! We can't afford another forfeit...
Looking forward to hearing from you div1 and getting a league perspective... Great to see all of the opinions and debate though! And good to see that the general consensus from those not involved sway to the side of sportsmanship and fair play. I think it is just common sense and good to see so many people involved in the league with it! Kinda restores my faith a bit in things to be honest.
JTG
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Post by div1 on Nov 19, 2015 19:25:46 GMT -5
I might bounce around a bit here - but have read so many posts that my head is spinning a bit. I wanted to mention some things, hopefully it makes some sort of sense.
First and foremost - I think it needs to be noted that the ref was more than fair in trying to be accommodating on the night. I was on the phone with him and the team at game time - and we did try to think "out of the box" a bit - that alone was shady enough and I felt like a corrupt politician in a way. While it appeared both teams were on board it made the attempt to try to get the game in the right thing to do. Call it sportsmanship, call it people booking off their night, call it an occasion to get a run in and some pops, people are genuinely there to get a game in. After Division 3 is won this year, there will not be any berths to a World Cup seeding, there will not be any lucrative contracts signed, it is for the most part a recreational division. That said, people want to win and we are all guys - so winning is important, and the purple ribbons for trying can be left with our kids at school or in the community. Because it is a competitive thing though, there are rules in place. The rules are there to guide the majority. Some will like, others may not - they have evolved and changed over the years. They change and evolve because of the world we live in and because things get more defined over time. It also helps to keep the League accountable.....not only the players and teams, but it forces/helps the Board ensure that we are treating all people the same and applying rules accordingly across the membership. There is room within the rules for some judgement calls, there are times where 2 sides may not agree with an interpretation of a rule, but it is documented and we use casebook and access our partners across the province if something weird comes up. I can honestly say that having these rules and policies in place, as well as the documented cases from the recent past, that it eliminates any appearance of bias or "old boys club" or favorites. I am pretty sure most members will admit that all members are treated equally and rulings have been applied equally......even if they may seem heavy handed or over the top or whatever - it doesn't matter if you are an independent team or a Club with several teams registered - the fines and sanctions are the same across the board. Back to the night in question - the rule - there is no "grace period". If your game starts at 6:15 pm, you are there well before the kick off time - that is your time to get your affairs in order. You are supposed to be ready to go well before kickoff so the ref can check ID cards and do all the business. I did send out a memo to all refs as was mentioned. The majority of the memo was related to their paperwork and getting it in on time, and essentially telling the refs that in order for us to support them and have a better place for people to play - we needed their help to make sure things were being done as evenly across the board as possible. I did stress that if they did not do their mandatory tasks, that game fees would be withheld. I won't go into all the details of what is mandatory, but checking ID cards is one of them. I have said on many occasion that I would like to be informed when refs do not check ID cards. This has happened 1 time, but people are quick to bring it up when they are getting roasted for something else. I understand this thread is not "official" in any way, but when I hear guys say that they have only had their cards checked twice this year ..... I have to howl. I howl in a nervous way as I have not been told about it, and it is up to team officials to say something. If they do not, then they share some of the blame in this all......besides the refs who are not allegedly doing their job. I think this usually happens once a year where 1 team gets the screw job and gets roasted with a forfeit. Others notice, make photocopies and do the other preventative measures to make sure they do not become a victim. And yes, if you come down from Port Alberni - the same thing will happen - and I believe it happened to a Cowichan team from Div 2 about 3 years ago. Carry a copy, you have a lifeline to use. Down the road, hopefully we can use electronic ID processes - but as of right now, it is a no go and we do not rely on anything electronic at the game. All permits and exemptions for playing without an ID card need the appropriate paperwork. Without the paperwork - you get a poor formage fine of $50.00 We are continuously working on the website and have a decent product for what we pay. There is plenty of room for improvement, but the major improvement would mean a construction of a whole new website that can handle all the weird things we do and it really does spider out to so many different facets. We have been guinea pigs in many ways for Team Pages, and it does work for the most part.....but there is some limitations as most have experienced or run into. Sportsmanship wise, I see both sides to the argument. As a player I would like to hang out and play even if we forfeited, and the ref would have stayed I'm sure. I also can see why a team might not want to stay if they are battling their own internal issues.....I'm sure they are p**sed that it was a forfeit too. What actually happened is whatever......if guys wanted to stay, they could have stayed for a pickup game. Believe it or not, we actually discussed this at Board level a couple weeks ago - the discussions centered around forfeits and how teams (especially the up island teams) are getting the short end of the stick. This League is an Island League - and it is so important that we remember this is not the Saanich or Victoria League. There has been attempts at running South and North Island divisions - it sucks and people lose more interest.
Damn, kid is freaking out - I think I got most of it.....gotta cut it off here till I can regroup and reread the posts again.
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Post by greenbastard on Nov 19, 2015 21:54:50 GMT -5
Any chance TSM n JTG coaching the div3 allstar team.
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Week 9
Nov 20, 2015 1:10:36 GMT -5
Post by div1 on Nov 20, 2015 1:10:36 GMT -5
Allstar coaches have been selected greenB, please refer to the allstar games thread if you really care.
JTG, I typically would not use a sarcastic remark in this situation as I know it might be early and the wound might be still a bit to fresh - but since you opened the door......while I won't give you any credit for jumping on the Habs bandwagon - if I see you on the Italian bandwagon cheering for the Azzurri instead of the Greeks - we might be able to work out a sponsorship package........
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Week 9
Nov 20, 2015 15:07:11 GMT -5
via mobile
div1 likes this
Post by jimmytg on Nov 20, 2015 15:07:11 GMT -5
We have some Italian fans on our team div1 does that count? Lol! But for the rest of us I've gotta give you a polite NEVER! Blue and white forever!!! :-)
JTG
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