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Post by div1 on Dec 17, 2015 3:30:37 GMT -5
Effective immediately, the SF Bayside Tigers will be removed from the Division 2 standings.
They have forfeited their 2nd game which means all records will be expunged and they will be dropped to Division 3 for next year automatically.
The standings will be adjusted shortly, but essentially they will reflect that any games that SF played will be erased and essentially never happened.
This includes, but not limited to, goals for and against as well as wins and losses.
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Post by soccerball on Dec 17, 2015 16:53:54 GMT -5
But they were doing so well...they were in the top 10 still.
So this only benefits the terrible teams they lost and tied to. Seems unfair. Why not just hand out forfeit wins for the rest of their games? Then it doesn't benefit Prospect Lake for losing to the worst team Div 2 has seen in a few years. Not my place to critique, just trying to start some healthy discussion on here again.
Missed you all. Love Soccerball.
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Post by div1 on Dec 17, 2015 23:44:34 GMT -5
I wouldn't call Prospect Lake terrible, but they definitely s**t the bed when it came to playing that team.
Its funny how some teams match up sometimes and why some teams have other teams' number for some reason.
I realize that SF had a terrible finish to their year in Div 2 - but if you look at their game results, there was a bunch of 1 and 2 goal games......to me those can have another result. (sometimes)
Regardless, while we typically do not have a problem handing out fines, fining them for the rest of the year might be a little excessive - even by our standards. Oh yah, and the rules say we can't do that anyways.....so, the expunging way is the route to go.
I don't think guys like showing up to a forfeit anyways - and you know sooner or later that could have happened.
Thankfully, for both games they forfeited - at least they gave plenty of notice.
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Post by greenbastard on Dec 18, 2015 0:09:05 GMT -5
With over 30 players on there u21 team you would think they could scrounge up maybe 20 players to help out on the day. Just saying.
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Post by arsenalhater on Dec 18, 2015 17:56:30 GMT -5
My two cents, just because : I get that the rules say they forfeit the rest of the year and move to div 3, but when a team moves all their players to their Div 3 team to try and win the league so they can just swap spots next year is kinda crap. They lose nothing for this other than some fines because if the 3's win they move up to that spot and the 2's move down. They are playing by the rules but in a situation like this, with 30 players on a U21 team and all their best players sent to the 3's the punishment should be more harsh. Send em to div 4, that'll teach em
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Post by div1 on Dec 19, 2015 1:12:12 GMT -5
Interesting point - you saying teams should be capped for player amounts? 20 or 25 per team only ??
Not sure how many teams would go for that........pros and cons to it of course.......interesting discussion we have had at Board level for several years.
Didn't the Div 3 team just lose last weekend? .........post a couple big transfers too....
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Post by arsenalhater on Dec 19, 2015 1:15:50 GMT -5
not a point of capping amount of players, more situational. sure the div 3 team lost, no team is invincible these days. But to take all your players off your div 2 team to transfer to your 3's then fold the 2's is just bush league. Sure the writing is on the wall but play the season out, don't take advantage of the rules and be babies about it. And when you have that many players on a u21 and div 3 team you should be able to fill a div 2 roster with call ups
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Post by div1 on Dec 19, 2015 1:34:18 GMT -5
I hate situational situations.
So hard to be consistent with rules and sanctions as it is........but I hear where you are coming from.
If I did not have the position I do - well, I might have other things to say......but .....
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Post by arsenalhater on Dec 19, 2015 1:43:08 GMT -5
fair enough I totally get it and understand the rules have to be a strong basis point. There are too many little things you would have to put in the rules, like : if you transfer this many people off your team to a lower division then fold, you have this happen etc. I personally think any team that fold should go to div 4 and start again. That is just a problem waiting to happen every year and I can't think of many times where a team that has folded and gone down 1 division has been successful in getting a bunch of new players in. Obviously this has probably happened but people that use the rules to benefit themselves and not just play games is weak!!!!!!!! No one is getting paid, just play the game, you win and you win , you lose and you lose. too many paperwork games
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Post by obviously on Dec 19, 2015 15:53:20 GMT -5
Can you explain to me how this is a fair result for Nanaimo and Lakehill in this situation? Currently Lakehill is in second, and Nanaimo is in third. After kicking bayside out of the league, Lakehill moves to third and it looks like Nanaimo may drop all the way to fifth. Prospect moves into second place, and into the promotion spot. So by kicking out a team and expunging their results, the league has now changed the promotion picture to div 1, which seemingly punishes the teams who showed up and beat Bayside. A team who div 1 says weren't that bad of a team based on their results. Can you explain how this is a fair end result to this situation?
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Post by div1 on Dec 19, 2015 17:35:22 GMT -5
It is fair because that is what your rule says to do and we carry out those rules and are held accountable to those rules.
If your team, or other League members do not think it is fair - then I am sure that there will be a motion at the AGM.
Do your homework, prepare for all the what if's and the overall picture - go through all the scenarios's. Be prepared to speak on how it affects all the teams in all the divisions and why everybody should go for it. (I wouldn't use the "fair result for Lakehill & Nanaimo" as an arguing point, but that could be part of the con to it all.)
The league is 18 games long - well, now it is 16 technically. Pretty sure this will make for an interesting finish.
While you are up working on this motion - perhaps you can change the members' minds on goal ratio and goals for/against too ??
That has been a debate almost every year that I have been around.
Another tough one that I wish you luck on.
Overall, I like the way it is now - but it is definitely not a perfect scenario as there will be cons to all the different ways of doing things.
The 1 of situations always throw wrenches into the mix.
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Post by soccerball on Dec 20, 2015 1:23:53 GMT -5
Let's be honest. Even if the entire div 2 saanich team moved to the div 3 team they likely won't have a serious effect. They were terrible in Div 2. They'll be ok in Div 3. It's not like anyone on that team was a game changer. Seems like they spent more time running their mouths than their legs. If saanich let's them have a spot in div 2 next year they'll just end up costing them a div 2 spot next year as well. Hopefully saanich is smarter than that. Still think it benefits prospect unjustly. But those are the rules so I'll live. The tigers fate was expected after all their decent players left.
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Post by realcordova on Jan 8, 2016 19:17:11 GMT -5
I think you've made assumptions about the situation arsenal hater. Three blazers moved down when it became obvious the team wouldn't last the season with the attendances they were getting. More wanted to, but you can only accommodate so many players and they didn't want to drop down to a lower level. With the core group mostly moving to Lakehill and eslewhere at late notice pre season and the blazers traditionally being a bit of a closed team, they weren't able to recruit properly but wanted to give the season a go. This was not a case of the club stripping a functioning div 2 team to strengthen a 3 half way through the season - It was a case of a div 2 team falling apart and an effort being made to keep a few guys playing this season. The three that transferred down did so under the instruction that they had to show up for remaining div 2 games as call ups.
Suggesting call ups is a great idea... it just happens that div 2 is a travel heavy div and you can only make u21's do so much, let alone do it every single week. The forfeited games were in Powell River and Nanaimo, we couldn't convince. The u21s have stopped Molnar 3A and Shady Lane 4 from forfeiting a few times already and padded the numbers of the bobcats 3B, boston pizza 4, and the div 1s throughout this season. A few of them even played FOR Molnar 3A AGAINST SFFC Harris Dodge just last night... The u21s support our mens teams, it's just that it's a lot easier to get them out to Hampton park than it is to get them to drive the Malahat on a Saturday.
We permit about 10 (sometimes more) u21s every single game week. This isn't even just within our own club. We have also sent players to VI Wave div 1, Gorge div 1, Vic West div 4, and SPL 4. I'd be surprised and impressed if another club is moving their u21s around as frequently as this. If the number 34 (signed u21) is alarming people, are you under the impression we have 16+ subs at u21 games?! Younger players that didn't make the u21 team, we found a home for in div3/4 but signed them to u21 so that they could permit elsewhere for extra games if they wanted and hopefully when/if the club needed. It wasn't part of an evil plan... with that said, anyone got any big games coming up? Short a player or two? Send us a message and we might be able to send you a couple of solid players in the position(s) you need!
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Post by otterpointpete on Jan 12, 2016 13:55:47 GMT -5
RC Now you tell us about lending players. Hellas needed 7 of your U21's on Nov 13, 2015 @ Lochside @ 6:15pm sharp (make that extremely sharp), oh one last thing, with ID cards.
To the issue, didn't Team Bus handle all the roadies for Fusion last season or the season prior. It would appear as though some players are having a hard time adjusting without the Team Bus this season. Good luck in cup play especially to the U21's. I suggest the ref show up 2 hours early for the Fusion U21 Cup games just to check the Fusion ID cards. The Fusion U21 team has more players than Central Saanich has police officers.
Please pass on our best to TSM, since it seems he has taken a sabbatical from the blog. I hope those 3 points "picked up" against Hellas were worth it.
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Post by flyonthewall on Jan 13, 2016 13:13:36 GMT -5
Gentlemen: It is unfortunate that teams seem reluctant to travel up-Island or to Powell River and end up forfeiting those games and now SFFC Bayside Tigers are the latest team to fold. However, some of the comments have brought up some good comments that have merit. One in particular I think may have teams think twice about forfeiting is having that club relegated to Division 4. That penalty might carry more weight and cause clubs to re-think their strategy about forfeiting games! Another frustration I find is having to go online now to get league approval for game day pickups from another club or U21 players. This might be difficult when we still have some coaches or managers that are old school and don't have computers or must make a last minute decision to pick up players or be in a position to forfeit a game if they cannot get that last minute approval that now seems necessary. We're all volunteers and I find the amount of fines, etc. to be a bit excessive at times when we trying to do our best to field a team. Maybe if players kept their own player id cards with them at all times might be a better option. Also while I'm on a rant, how about having the referees have the game balls instead of teams that must supply them! Often balls will get too beat up to use, are too dark to use in bad weather where an orange ball might be better or deflate too easily and not usable.
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